fiestaturbo.com

[Sunil_FiestaRS_16V]

Was on my lunch break with a colleague . We went back to his so he could pick up his bank card. I went to pull away up this hill he lives on and heard a snap and the car felt really weird. I stopped immediatly had a look around the car and found this:





Got recovered home and started taking the arms off to replace with some old std ones i had lying around.






As i was all dirty i thought i might aswell change the speed sensor in the gearbox for the new one i got off BillyCabrio, as the wires on mine were f**cked. I knocked the coil pack and the stem that the lead goes onto broke off. Replaced the whole coilpack with a 1.6 one and the car seems to run alot smoother now. Anyone know if there is difference between the 1.6 and 2.0 coild pack though as they are differenet part numbers??


So yea had a very eventfull day but not of the good kind

[FezzR]

i would be seriously angry about those arms!!!
are they advertised for competition use?

either way if that had happened from hitting a bump on the motor way or even worse mid corner on a track you could well have become another statistic! serious issue there
it one thing for a bush or joint to fail but thats fooking insane

[Sunil_FiestaRS_16V]

i would be seriously angry about those arms!!!
are they advertised for competition use?

either way if that had happened from hitting a bump on the motor way or even worse mid corner on a track you could well have become another statistic! serious issue there
it one thing for a bush or joint to fail but thats fooking insane

They are meant for road use aswell. I checked with Brom before i bought them that theyd be fine for road use and he said yes. They have said they would replace them and i know Sean (TurboBoss) has had no torubles with his and he has way more power than i do . But i dont think he uses his car daily like i do.

I am pretty pissed off as like you say i could have written the car off or written myself off if i had been going at any speed. Luckily there is no damage though .

[TIL13R]

As said above these are ment to be the best lower arms!

These are the 1's i have purchased

Deflex





Tiller

[RS_Rawli]

well thats put me off using tubular lower arms now, that is horrendous, replacement, that couldve been fatal to you, and others.

Seen them lower arms that TIllier has, but i think they look v. weak and after seeing deflex's efforts at otehr stuff then

[xr2imetalhead]

thats terrible id be well p1ssed off

[Max M4X WW]

Think im going to be powerflexing mine soon? Dont want any of those now!

[Sunil_FiestaRS_16V]

To be honest from what Brom has said he has been using the arms on short oval race cars for 5 yrs with out any hassels. Apperntly when they have crashed its usually the cradle that breaks and not the arms. So hopefully this was just a one off and shouldnt put you off them.

The are an amazing bit of kit and do improve handling so much, i could corner at sill speeds with them on and it felt so stable i was proper loving it. They did feel really s**t on rough roads though but thats to be expected and didnt bother me that much as the handling improvement made up for it .

Ive gotta keep postive or ill be bricking it all the time when im driving once i fit the replacements Fingers crossed this was just a one off and i was very unlucky .


Does anyone know about the coil pack though. Will the 1.6 coilpack be up to the job for my motor or should i get a 2.0 one soon as??

[chumkila]

bumbaclaart! thats not good is it. I'm glad it happened from standstill and not whilst driving in full force. Brom and da lads do have a very good reputation so I shouldn't worry.

[Captain Tightpants]

s**t the bed!

Definately have to agree, thats not good at all. As said though Zoo is a well respected name, so hopefully all should be well.

Steve

[rich_frst]

fudgekin hell man

glad your ok mate, and you wasnt doing any speed that could've ended the car or you..

these brom lower arms did they come set up or did you have to get tracking etc set up afterwards

[Sunil_FiestaRS_16V]

fouquette hell man

glad your ok mate, and you wasnt doing any speed that could've ended the car or you..

these brom lower arms did they come set up or did you have to get tracking etc set up afterwards

I set them up myself. Lined them up against the old lower arms as per Broms instructions. Was gonna get them setup properly with this months pay as i had to much camber and was eating tyres big time .

[rich_frst]

fouquette hell man

glad your ok mate, and you wasnt doing any speed that could've ended the car or you..

these brom lower arms did they come set up or did you have to get tracking etc set up afterwards

I set them up myself. Lined them up against the old lower arms as per Broms instructions. Was gonna get them setup properly with this months pay as i had to much camber and was eating tyres big time .

cool man... cheers

[Oranoco]

Bloody Hell

Least it ahppened at a slow speed and not while you were razzing the nuts off it

[heeman10]

I've been looking at those photo's for about five minutes now, I just can't believe that failure, and what a disaster it would've been if it'd happened on something as gentle as a motorway, let alone on the twisties or Brunters for example

It's pretty plain to me that a failure like that is going to occur when a tube is under load and only supported half way down it - right at its weakest point:



Clearly, if they've held up under rigorous testing etc you'd expect them to be ok, but the state of yours is just wrong

The nature of the break is what's concerning..why has it snapped rather than bent? Has it become THAT brittle just from the welding next to it? This is an absolutely shocking failure

[MAD_Adamski]

ok well i shall say my bit on these!!! i have spoken b4 about some of zoo's stuff and how my feelings are that i have heard of things snapping b4 etc etc BUT was told to shut up last year that there welder is the best....

imo i have heard and seen this b4 not just on the arms but other stuff stick to tried and tested stuff i say.... not saying there a bad compnay at all but they need to look into this problem...

as that could have been very dangerous

[Cl@ssy Burd]

Yes seems strange how its gona right near the weld, maybe the weld weakened the material (kinda liek the exhaust guy was telling us James???)





Excuse me, am tryna sound like i know [ERRR] am goin on bout
Scarey thought though

[Xr_Dub]

glad ure ok geazer

fliping mash up

cant belive it, i thought about getting zoo arms thank god i choose ian howells ones in the end. sorry after this im not going to get anything of them untill they sort it out or find out what went wrong .might be a few items that have mashed up but a few is just to much and it could have bin so much worse..

are zoo going to give u a refund..? what have they said?

ian howell has a set of lower arms for sale give him a buzz
its well worth it, i fitted them on mine makes huge difference...

[Oranoco]

MEF MOtorsprt are worth a look. Mate has their adjustable TCA's on his S1 and the quality is second to none. Not sure if he does Fiesta kit but it's always worth asking. HIs TCA's and toys are fitted and used in quite a few competition cars.

[FezzR]

Im only guessing as i have no sure fire experience with this but;
the point of failure looks to me to the focus point of forces, from lateral horizontal and all other forces. The rest of the areas are all well supported.
As for why it would snap as apposed to bend, three possibles: 1] the material was chosen for its strength, often stronger metals are more brittle 2] as suggested by the wise Clair brittle caused by the weld which another common issue with welding any metal (prolonged welding i think causing too much heat?) 3] Material was invisibly floored before they were even made.


In addition,
I think its wrong to start critizing a company as a whole over this, that happens on too many topics like this and how ever founded in some cases it may be it has no positive effect for anyone; as the compnay is less likely to be any help if they are getting slated. (not saying anyone has actually over stepped the mark with theyre above comments)

[MAD_Adamski]

In addition,
I think its wrong to start critizing a company as a whole over this, that happens on too many topics like this and how ever founded in some cases it may be it has no positive effect for anyone; as the compnay is less likely to be any help if they are getting slated. (not saying anyone has actually over stepped the mark with theyre above comments)

i agree and i will probably get moaned at for what i said but clearly it needs to be said seen as there still willing to sell them tho there are faults...

[Rhinopower]

I've always questioned their products and that jsut does it for me now, you could be dead mate because of that!!

nevermind hey, much better sticking with ford parts!

[heeman10]

As I've said, it looks like the tube has become brittle at the weld, and it only looks like 18 gauge tube, which I must say seems a bit on the skinny side for a wishbone being used like that. At the same time, as I said earlier, if they've been tested successfully, then that should be the end of the questioning

Xr_Dub - Read what I'm about to say below about Ian Howell's lower arms

Rhinopower - Ford arms don't allow camber adjustment and rubber bushes are gay!

I had an incident which I thought I'd reported on this forum, but clearly didn't. The Area Six lower arms allow camber adjustment by way of sliding the ball joint in or out, then clamping it with two sturdy bolts. I did this, whenever it was..last summer I think, but had an incident a couple of weeks ago. Turning into a roundabout after tracking the front wheels up to perfection for a couple of hours, there was a clunk and the car threw itself wildly to the left. I kept it together..but when I exited, the steering wheel was at about 4 o'clock when travelling in a straight line.

I had to turn round and cover two more roundabouts..each of which gave the same sliding sensation, and altered tracking every time I used the steering wheel. Once back, I jacked the car up and found the driver's side adjustable ball joint had come loose - allowing the wheel to flop around wherever it wanted. It was a disturbing find, and one I need to remedy. I put a lot of torque into the bolts when I initially set them up, but there's no positive location mechanism on them. As a result, I'll be drilling and bolting the slotted ball joint stubs when I've got the car back home, to make sure even if they manage to loosen off again in the future, they won't be able to slide and potentially cause problems again.

I'll be speaking to Ian about them, as it was a clear potential problem when I fitted them, and a small alteration will make them about the best on the market IMO. It's always going to be a problem building racecar functions into road car components and making them last in the same way road car counterparts do, so these problems are to be expected. At best, you'd hope a bearing would wear or a bar would bend, but a wishbone snapping like the Zoo one above is quite different...

[~S1~]

I always had doubts about the design of the lower arms at that exact point. All accelleration and braking forces are concentrated on that one point and over time I would say the tube has work-hardened and eventually fractured. It should have a gusset/extra plating at that point. Compare that arm to the original and see how much metal is present on the original Ford arm.

[FezzR]

James the only reason i can imagine yours coming loose like that so quickly could be from not tightening enough which you insisted it wasnt or contaminant/debris between the surfaces.

completely agree that with time the design is an issue, but to happen so quickly like that doesnt seem to be a design related in my eyes.

if they've been tested successfully

do anyone know anything about the test other than the reported oval activities? although motor in general is deemed to be demanding, each type of motor sport usually poses a specific problem instead of constant all round battering that road cars get

[FezzR]

As for the Deflex design, like i said in Gavs post couple of weeks ago i thing the design theory is really good, the cast? edging on the cast? flat plate design is a very modern idea that is used a lot not and has replaced the pressed steel design. and it works fantastically well. however going on deflex previous efforts and the amount of material the have drilled out looks like probably floor.

[heeman10]

James the only reason i can imagine yours coming loose like that so quickly could be from not tightening enough which you insisted it wasnt or contaminant/debris between the surfaces.

Surfaces were cleaned beforehand for that reason. The problem is that the bolts are clamping onto flat, painted sheet steel. Clamping friction clearly isn't enough to stand up to the cornering forces fed through the ball joint, hence the need for more positive location. Also, the reactive spring force of the steel wishbone will give gradually in time I think, which will reduce the total applied clamping force, giving the results I've seen.

S1 - Agreed. Was saying to Rawli earlier a gusset's needed really, just to take the stress off that weak point, but as he pointed out, there isn't much room for anything there because the wheel needs to turn into that space. Still..a problem's a problem, and that lower arm doesn't solve it satisfactorily IMO.

[Paul R]

jolly flip in hell are these the ones I sold you? as I sold a set of these to someone

Unbeliveable but I wish it was the first time I'd heard this on the Zoo products

[RS_Rawli]

the wish time hey paul


edited, youve edited it now

[Paul R]

the wish time hey paul


edited, youve edited it now

[~nomad~]

to be honest i dont really like the idea of different lower arms, noone is going to have tested them for safety to the extend a car manufactor has, lawsuits etc! I am all for using polybushes but imho screw using diff parts in that area. And sorry those deflex ones look awful to me!

[Sunil_FiestaRS_16V]

Thought id add what Brom wrote in a passionford thread as he hasnt replied on here

Brom Wrote:

just like to add sunill has had his arms replaced as i said i would this is a very uncomman thing to happen this desidn came from short oval cars super salloons n hot rods many yrs ago taking much abuse hitting barrers other cars they never broke
i used to get the hi strenght tube 3.5 mm tubing from rally design but no i do my own turning and maching i use diffent thicker materails
the old tube had a rating of 12 tonne statc load te gold cromoly bearings have a static load of 14 tonnes
the new design
uses the same 30 mm diameter tube BUT i NOW USE 8MM WALL COLD DRAWN SEAMLESS TUBING WITH A TENSILE STRENGH OF 33 TONNES

the newer joint has a static loading of 53 tonnes on the outer joint and i side loading of 13 tonnes
your avrage road or track tyre would not pull 3 g let alown 13 g it would take to bend the joints !!!!!!!!!
i have been doing this type since i came out of hospital when i re opened zoo in april
i have not had any other complants in the 6 yrs i have been making them
only the balls in rose joint sometimes squeeked which is now why i fit grease covers to the inner joints
inner joints cost me around £40 each and the outer joints cost me £53 plus vat hence the price increase
to re asure everbody convedence i am going to get the old arm tested again the new and will post results to anybody intrested
just sorry its happend
i dont sell items to endanger ppls lives as anybody that know me personally i tend to make things over kill in size and strenght

[FezzR]

James the only reason i can imagine yours coming loose like that so quickly could be from not tightening enough which you insisted it wasnt or contaminant/debris between the surfaces.

Surfaces were cleaned beforehand for that reason. The problem is that the bolts are clamping onto flat, painted sheet steel. Clamping friction clearly isn't enough to stand up to the cornering forces fed through the ball joint, hence the need for more positive location.

i completely agree with positive location being ideal, BUT you had the arms fitted for X number of days/month with no problems you then adjust them and X number of minutes/hours later they work loose indicated a problem with fitting. not douting your abilities as you clearly do alot of mechanical work and know how to tighten a bolt, just the time frames dont add up to me.



Sunil well done for adding the response as its only fair,
i dont think there calculations add up though, does anyone know the sort of formula that would be used? i know it would be fairly lengthly one.

but surely you wouldnt need to generate a 13G corner to excert 13 tonnes on that single point?

not supprised that they havent hear of other failure when lot of other people seem to have though.

[heeman10]

Surfaces were cleaned beforehand for that reason. The problem is that the bolts are clamping onto flat, painted sheet steel. Clamping friction clearly isn't enough to stand up to the cornering forces fed through the ball joint, hence the need for more positive location.

i completely agree with positive location being ideal, BUT you had the arms fitted for X number of days/month with no problems you then adjust them and X number of minutes/hours later they work loose indicated a problem with fitting. not douting your abilities as you clearly do alot of mechanical work and know how to tighten a bolt, just the time frames dont add up to me.

No, you've got confused somewhere along the line matey. I haven't touched the wishbones since I fitted them. I was playing with tracking shortly before this incident, not the wishbones in any way.

A couple of weeks before that (the last time I had driven the car) I hit a sharp trough at high speed and the car jumped close on a metre sideways..thankfully to the right. I assumed it had been terrible bump steer on hitting the bump stops, but it seems this would've been the culprit. Again..it's a case of "good job I found it now" before it had totally loosened off and thrown me in a wall.

I know what you're saying about the 13g thing...plus tensile accounts for nothing when it's in bending!

[ianFRST]

yikes