fiestaturbo.com

[darkhorse]

Ive got a kit car with an RS1800 engine in it. Pectel Ecu, custom dash.
My alternator is knackered!! (at least its not charging the battery as it keeps dyeing). The light comes on with ignition on, then goes out when car starts....but the charging voltage is about 12v at battery and alternator with all ancilleries on. about 12.2 at idle with nothing on.

There is no label or numbers on the alternator and Im struggling to find out which one I need to buy.

Is it an RS1800 one, like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Fiesta-M ... 2323fb71a3

Ive noticed CVh ones are similar but seem to have a different pulley. Not sure if the shaft is long enough for swapping mine on!

this is my alternator






Also, the wiring seems weird...?! Im not sure how it should be, does anyone have a wiring diagram for the connections by any chance?

There's the battery + on the left of the multiplug. An empty connector in the centre, then the yellow and brown which Im guessing is for the alt light circuit on the dash?
There is a nut fitting marked as B+ but it has nothing going to it...
can anyone enlighten me !!! cheers

[FRSJON]

your alternator isnt a zetec derived one. i had one like that not long ago,came from heeman (pm him ) thought it came from a diesel but not 100% sure.. or maybe a cvh one with the pulley swapped for a zetec

[darkhorse]

cheers mate
Hmm, so we dont know what it is then lol?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Fiesta-1 ... 45ff2feb14

I thought this looked very similar!!!
I will send him a pm!
Any idea on the wiring conundrum?

[mikeymikeyp]

looks like a cvh one mk4 escort id guess ,just 2 wires one heavy live to the starter and usually a blue for the light
12v aint enough youd be looking at 14v when its working iv got a zetec one if you struggle to get one but you should be able to get a recon one for 60 -80

[AW0L]

this is similar to my old one, it is a lucas a127. what you can do on these is change the brushes, to do that, remove the silver thing on the right of this pic, this is the voltage regulator and once the brushes get low they stop making contact on the rings inside.

you can get these cheap on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-VOLTAGE-R ... 35ae506e5b

you can also find all the other parts to referb your altenator

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40

[darkhorse]

Thanks lads. thas brilliant
Awol - thats awesome info, nice one. Im going to take the regulator off now. Will post back

[darkhorse]

Well, I've took the regulator off.
The brushes are in very good order with loads of life left
Is there any way to test the rectifier and regulator with it off the car? or shall I just go for it and buy a kit off ebay...

[AW0L]

if they look ok then they are not the problem, i would firstly look at the live feed to the battery for breaks/damage

[darkhorse]

if they look ok then they are not the problem, i would firstly look at the live feed to the battery for breaks/damage

Cheers mate
Will do. the engine has only done 7k miles from new. But I'm not sure if its had this charging problem from day one...!!
Whats the best way to check it? you mean visual inspection?
I did a voltage drop test from alt + to bat + and alt gr to battery neg and the voltage drop was nil....
is that what you meant?

[AW0L]

i did mean visual and give it a buzz test on continuity and a wiggle test

i might have a loom for that altenator at home, i will have a look for it for ya

is the starter motor a front mounted??

[AW0L]

There's the battery + on the left of the multiplug. An empty connector in the centre, then the yellow and brown which Im guessing is for the alt light circuit on the dash?
There is a nut fitting marked as B+ but it has nothing going to it...
can anyone enlighten me !!! cheers

i am pretty sure, the b+ is meant to be the battery feed, i will look at my loom and get back to you

[mikeymikeyp]

you will have a heavy red wire going to starter then from starter to bat thats how the charge is sent to the bat ,try and give the starter wire a wiggle you might find it is fooked and falls off

[AW0L]

you will have a heavy red wire going to starter then from starter to bat thats how the charge is sent to the bat ,try and give the starter wire a wiggle you might find it is fooked and falls off

in his case a thick brown one

looking at the pic (first one) it looks like its been soldered (badly) could be the cause of the problem

[mikeymikeyp]

aye it looks like a brown on his




this is a zetec one if the photos work as usuall photobuckets actin like a dik

[darkhorse]

Thanks guys.
AWOl - that would be excellent if you could check if you do have a loom mate
Im at work now but will check when I get home for the wiring route. Will check on starter location mate. Only just getting to grips with whats been used and where it is lol.

The large wire coming off the alternator... I will check where it goes to, I will also do a continuity and wiggle check on it.

I'm still puzzled why there's nothing going to the B+ nut though.... - I really need to identify what each of the 3 pins in the connector is for, and that should tell me if the battery + wire is actually in the wrong place?

Another thing that has got me scratching my head, is why the alternator light goes out when the car is started... It should be on dimly I would have thought if the alternator and battery current are different?

[AW0L]

i am pretty sure on these altenators the load is split to both pins, from memory my loom has 3 wires but only 2 at the other end... but i will confirm once i dig out the loom

[darkhorse]

Interesting!


Ive dug this diagram off the web

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/images/altend.gif

and they are saying its used so Im confused if thats the case why is the B+ soldered on to the left hand spade of the 3 pin plug

[AW0L]

lol yea i looked at that, have you got a haynes manual?? the diagram on there shows 2 feeds to the alt.

[darkhorse]

just checked and I think the B+ is an alternative to either of the 2 large spade connector terminals in the multiplug. So it doesnt matter about that part!
I'm going to recheck the wires continuity tonight and if its ok Im going to have to buy a repair kit, even though Im not convinced it is at the root of the problem. Will resolder that crappy connection too!!

[AW0L]

thats fair enough.... just one other thing... when you had the regulator off did you have a look at the rings inside on the shaft??? if they are worn then you will have problems... however, the whole referb kit is pretty cheap and if that solves it then YAY!!!

i couldn't find mine, i know roughly where it is but its burried under a hell of a lot of stuff lol

[darkhorse]

rings seemed ok mate.
But I've found a potential cause.... Im not sure yet as Ive got to refit the alternator to test it, but the yellow and brown wire (the wire to the gauge light) I have located under the dash (and what a total Bic™ it is getting under there,.,.. might have to take the seats out lol) was taped back to back with a green wire. They are spade terminals but I couldn't tell if they had been insulated against each other or were making (poor, contact)

So I'm going to refit the alternator tomorrow, and see if I can work out how the hell this muppet has done the wiring.
will update

[mikeymikeyp]

What kind of kitcar is it is it using a fiesta loom

[AW0L]

What kind of kitcar is it is it using a fiesta loom

could be any... dax, pilgrim, caterham, westfield, locost, sylva just to name the ones i know of/built

[mikeymikeyp]

aye mate was just thinking that if its a fez loom then he could follow the wires easier cos someone will know the colours of it

[darkhorse]

Its a dax mate.
Im not even sure what the loom is from.... I believe it was supplied by Dax. Is there any way to tell if its fiesta or custom??
Its a Pectel T2 ecu, so that rules out working it out from that end...!!

I hope Im not wasting my time buying this repair kit!!
Does anyone know a link for a replacement alternator? I cant go to the local motor factors as I don't know car its off lol!! I've found Lucas 127's but they dont seem to have the 3 pin connection (mind you I could probably adapt to a different one)
Unless it is a RS1800 one like the engine?

[AW0L]

dont forget the a off the 127

i know mine was the same as yours apart from the pulley, and it was from a 1.1i hcs fiesta mk3.5

[AW0L]

I believe it was supplied by Dax

don't think dax would make that like that

[darkhorse]

I believe it was supplied by Dax

don't think dax would make that like that

cheers mate.
I wont forget the A

Yeah, Dax supplied the loom, installed the engine, and then the previous owner butchered some of it to try and make it work (tie wraps were his speciality).
Like you say, that is not Dax's work!!

he had a clifford professionally fitted.... then it wasn't working he thought (battery drain anyone...) and he had another alarm installer remove it and install a different thatcham category one alarm

What a pr*t!!

Don't suppose any auto electric gurus lives south yorkshire sides do they
there some beers in it lol

[darkhorse]

Well that was interesting!
I now know a lot more about the wiring of this thing!
I ordered a repair kit off the magical ebay for the Lucas 127a alternator. Lo and behold it was spot on
So I stripped the alternator down and fitted new bearings, copper slip ring, new rectifier and new regulator!! Basically the complete kit.
Rebuilt it and refitted to the car. I had located the idiot light wiring and wire to it from alternator under the dash, so joined them up again and started it.
Fired up and started charging Was about 14.9v with nothing on at idle and about 14.3 or .4 with everything on max.
RESULT
Turned ignition off, took key out. Car still kept running
After a bit of looking into it, it seems that even though the alt warning lamp is off the ignition, the ignition coil or something else is on the same side and is allowing current to flow back to the alternator which is exciting it and keeping the car running (thats the best thing I can think of anyway..)
So I fitted a suitable diode in the alt warning light circuit and voila. All working perfectly
Cheers for the help guys

[AW0L]

fantastic result mate

somewhere in my box of wires i have one of those diodes, a proper ford one, if you ever need it let me know

good job

[darkhorse]

fantastic result mate

somewhere in my box of wires i have one of those diodes, a proper ford one, if you ever need it let me know

good job

cheers mate!
Hold tight for the next breakdown post lol

[AW0L]

cheers mate!
Hold tight for the next breakdown post lol

we'll be here

[andymac]

Where in south yorkshire? It's a relatively big place...

FYI some lucas alternators have an exciter wire and won't charge unless the exciter wire is connected (goes to alternator light then through that to ground).

[AW3K]

just looked at the haynes and there should be

blue thin wire for signal to lamp on dash.
red thick to starter
red thick piggyback through starter back to battery


glad you got it working

Andy

[darkhorse]

cheers lads.
Sorry I missed your last posts to this thread!

As an update, the car is still not right. It is charging at 15.1v (overcharging now lol). I have acquired a new (nearly new) zetec alternator and although its the right fitment, it doesn't use the same wiring plug as this one, lol.
Additionally, Im pretty sure I have dropped a b*llock and cant use it because it doesnt have a voltage regulator on it... lol

From what I have since read, the zetec doesnt have a voltage reg on and uses the OEM ford ecu to regulate the charge....
Which isn't good as ive got a standalone ecu


Sooo, does anyone have any idea what next

I cant see why it could be overcharging? am i missing something here lol. New regulator, new rectifier, now putting out too much charge? wtf!!