fiestaturbo.com

[AdrianFRST]

These have been available for a good while now, but people seem not to be aware of them and complain about torque steer. He's some info and photos.

* Track / strip proven to almost elminate torque steer.
* Fully rose jointed, length adjustable +/- 10mm for camber setting.
* Allows precise geometry adjustment to maximise traction and minimise uneven tyre wear.
* Made for Ian to his spec from brand-new Ford arms (not pattern).
* Around £280 for the fully rose jointed set. Made to order, not mass produced, hence the expense.
* 01522 877887 after 6pm / ian_howell@lineone.net

Yeah, great, but why do I need a set?

Under hard acceleration the turning force of the wheels causes the car to "torque steer" - try and move off to one side instead of forward.

The standard rubber bushes in the lower front suspension arms allow for side-to-side movement, which increases the problem.

These arms replace the rubber bushes with rose joints, which allow the same required movements, but without the unwanted play and looseness associated with the std bushes.

The second aspect of these arms is the camber adjustment facility:

By increasing or decreasing the length of the arm it is possible to adjust the angle that the wheel sits at. This can either correct negative camber (top of the wheel sitting further in the arch than the bottom) and prevent tyre wear on the inside edge, or positive camber (the exact reverse).

It also allows precise camber adjustment to tailor the perfect setup for maximising traction. Paul R's 4.89 0-60 run demonstrates how well set up geometry can greatly affect traction and acceleration times.

Some feedback from people who have these

http://www.fiestaturbo.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6208
http://www.fiestaturbo.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5232

Fitting guide coming soon. Bear in mind you'll need the car laser aligned after fitting.

[bcracknell]

Ade,
Any ideas if he can do them without the rose jointing (I realise you'll sacrifice a bit of the effect they have on torque steer) but I don't want to pay £280 for them and wear the rose joints out using the car on the road, I'd use poly bushes instead.

[AdrianFRST]

Yep, they can be done without the rose joints.

New arms £100 plus postage.
Modification to your existing arms £50.

The rose joints are fine for road use though. They are PTFE lined to significantly reduce the wear caused by road grit / salts.

[Ian C70T5]

Ade.. Just to update your prices mate..

Just got this from Ian

£50 if they are fixed with two rivets, £65 if on three rivets!

I'm gonna get some too

[bcracknell]

I take it that's £100 each for the modified versions.

[AdrianFRST]

Nope, £100 the pair.

[nthorpey]

Just noticed about the bolts used on these don't seem long enough in my opinion. Not dissing the parts but personally would like to see a longer bolt used which penetrates the nylon locking portion of the nut.

[AdrianFRST]

Just noticed about the bolts used on these don't seem long enough in my opinion. Not dissing the parts but personally would like to see a longer bolt used which penetrates the nylon locking portion of the nut.

Ooops, my mistake.

They are much longer, in the pics they buts are only loosely hand threaded on. There's more than enough thread to clear the nylon.

[MadcatCraig]

FRST lower arms use 3 rivets dont they?

the 1.1 arms and some 2i arms use only 2

how come u only got the 2 rivet ones ????

ade would these help pull my wheels in

at present mine sit like this

/ instead of liek this | so i get uneven tyre wear.

I dont have enough power to warrant rose joints etc but would be well interested if i can reduce me tyre wear problem !

[AdrianFRST]

The arms on the Type-R were whatever was lying around when Ian sold it.

They will fix your camber problems, yes.

[Stoned]

Apart from looking more shiny and stuff what makes these different?

[chumkila]

Rose Joints and Camber Adjustment.

[AdrianFRST]

Apart from looking more shiny and stuff what makes these different?

Under hard acceleration the turning force of the wheels causes the car to "torque steer" - try and move off to one side instead of forward.

Th standard rubber bushes in the lower front suspension arms allow for side-to-side movement, which increases the problem.

These arms replace the rubber bushes with rose joints, which allow the same movement, but without the play and looseness associated with the bushes.

Rose joints are fairly expensive and the arms are custom made to order, hence the high price.

The second aspect of these arms is the camber adjustment facility:

By increasing or decreasing the length of the arm it is possible to adjust the angle that the wheel sits at. This can either correct negative camber (top of the wheel sitting further in the arch than the bottom) and prevent tyre wear on the inside edge, or positive camber (the exact reverse).

It also allows precise camber adjustment to tailor the perfect setup for maximising traction. Paul R's 4.89 0-60 run demonstrates how well set up geometry can greatly affect traction and acceleration times.

[AdrianFRST]

Original post edited with same info.

I've done my homework on these, so if anything's not clear just ask.

[Stoned]

Excellent write up. That makes it all clear.

Looks like something to add on to my list of things to buy and do on the Fez

Cheers

[M Brian]

what about vibration on the shell and stress to the bodywork? instead of taken in the bushes?

has anyone hit a kerb with these? do they shear? and fail?


again - not dissing the conversion but im weary of rose joints on a road car?

can the castor setting be altered with these? any reccomendations?

[PF Dave]

Melv I dont see how you could adjust caster as thats front to back movement of the wheel...you would need adjustable top mounts, adjustable Tie rods or turbo equiv OR you can use the stock hatch sneaky trick of taking bushes off from one side and putting them on the other.

Just a quick point too - I am aware I may be looking at this from ohter angles to some others on here but your talking about negative camber as if its an illness - it makes your car go round corners better...if your into performance driving then you want -2 -3 anyway. It makes a suprising difference...if its more for show than go then fair play....just didnt want poor Mr Camber mis-represented lol

[M Brian]

dave - i think they're talking for outright traction here rather than handling as such.

and they are adjustable!

so you could set it for launches and set it for handling later for example.



you can alter castor from the bottom pivot point.

there are no tie rods on the turbo (mk3) as it runs of a three fixing lower arm to give the location - the anti roll bar is just that - anti roll - it doesnt really give any location.

so the only way of adjusting castor would really be to move the ball joint postion. (or potentially you could use the adjustable top to move that) but either way would work.


the castor settings are different per mk3 i think.

you can see the position of the ball joint has moved dependant on which bottom arm you want.

[PF Dave]

Yeah as I said forgetting the mk3 onward lower arm is quite a bit different from mk2 my mistake there...Rose jointing as you say saved my mates race car absolutely no time at all round the ciurcuit on a test day...thats not to say there not helping but it wont guaruntee that your car is quicker or anything like that...still if your gonna get some nice lower arms you might as well have rose joints then you know everything will be lovely and responsive.

[AdrianFRST]

Just a quick point too - I am aware I may be looking at this from ohter angles to some others on here but your talking about negative camber as if its an illness - it makes your car go round corners better...if your into performance driving then you want -2 -3 anyway. It makes a suprising difference...if its more for show than go then fair play....just didnt want poor Mr Camber mis-represented lol

Ooops, no didn't want to give that impression totally.

You're totally right that for optimum handling and grip some neg camber is good - look at touring cars etc (maybe not that much ).

I suspect that most people will want to reduce it a little to combat the tyre wear, but the beauty of these arms is that it can be set to whatever level is required.

[PF Dave]

Fair play Ade and your right even in the track car I wouldnt want THAT much camber LOL it would be a toss up to see what goes first the tyres going to hessian or the driveshaft popping out! lol

A decent set of arms like these are well worth the money...

[XR2iT]

Thanks for these pics as I have managed to figure out what is going on with my car. As the car is a rally car and I figure that i am going to have a bump or two I can't justify paying the money for the FF ones however I can make up my own but can anyone tell me is the ball joint a standard Ford item that has been slotted or is it a special?

[Mark Si]

Sorry to sound dumb but..

Could someone just explain to me what rose-jointing is? I can see from the pics that the pivot point has a welded metal bit where the bush usually is but surely thats not all there is to it.

I understand camber, torque steer etc, just I'm not sure what a rose-joint is

[XR2iT]

Actually these are spherical bearings and not rose joints. The difference is that the SB has a hole in a spherical piece of metal that is free to rotate in another piece of metal. A rose joint has a threaded extension on it so you can attach it to a rod.
i have just finished making my own and it wasn't too difficult if you have access to a good toolmaker. Thanks Dad!

[unknown_user]

lemme get this straight if u give u my lower arms there 3 stud ones.... u can stop my ture from wearin on the inside edge for 60 quid????

[Stoned]

Mine has gone through a brand new set of tyres on the inside in under 3 months

I had forgotten about these, but will get some now

[unknown_user]

will it actually work cuz i dunt wanna change my tyres ever 3 months with 17s!

[sjoyce666]

what are the actual prices for each version ?

3 stud rose joint ?
2 stud rose joint ?

3 stud not rose joint ?
2 stud not rose joint ?

Can he do these for ERST's cause mine torque steers all over the place when booted

[FezzyMK3.5]

so if i buy a set of the uprated versions without the rose joints will it still be bale to adjust the camber and reduce wear !? if so what version will i need the 2 or 3 rivet version bearing in mind mine is a 1.1 !?

[chumkila]

why not ask the man himself?

[buff]

ive just got my 17's on, i wore the tyres on the 16's down in about 4 months so these would seem to be a good buy if they save my tyres.
are they still available?

does the £100 for the new ones include new bushings where the rose joints would go?

or if i supply a set, can you fit the new bushings while modding them?

also (sorry loads of questions!!!) what do you mean by the 3 rivet and 2 rivet versions????

Cheers Neil

[df908]

what do you mean by the 3 rivet and 2 rivet versions????

Base models + earlier 2i's had lower arms with the balljoints held on by (you guessed it) 2 rivets. FRSTs + RS1800 + later 2i's all had 3 rivets holding the balljoint.

BTW I'm not 100% sure about the models mentioned, anyone with superior knowledge feel free to correct!

[MadcatCraig]

on FRST arms the balljoint is not dead in the centre of the lower arm

it is also significantly angled

which makes the castor as it is !!!!!

Lowering your car just makes it more apparant.

FRST had wider track than other models also the steering rack had longer arms

[MIK3Y]

Yep, they can be done without the rose joints.

New arms £100 plus postage.
Modification to your existing arms £50.

The rose joints are fine for road use though. They are PTFE lined to significantly reduce the wear caused by road grit / salts.

Im too a little scepticle about the high price, is £280 for the pair?

So if i was to send my new genuine ford arms to Ian he would make them adjustable for £50 each but not rose jointed? Is this right?

Thanx

[MIK3Y]

Can u just confirm the price of a PAIR of NON-rose jointed arms supplied?

Need to sort my camber out after it having eaten my inner edge on my new tyres in about a month.

R u sure 10mm will be enough cause it is pretty bad, looks worse in real life: (PS: I use genuine FORD FRST arms, lowered around 35mil.)

Looks like this: /-----\