fiestaturbo.com

[oibren85]

hi guys, need some advice on whats best for big performance. I've got an chargecooler on my ZVH fiesta. The car isn't setup yet but i want to get as much power out of it as possible. The car will be running cossie management and hopefully be around the 300bhp mark. The question really is can the chargecooler take this safely and work effectively or is it best to go down the intercooler route. If anyone has managed to mount both on a fiesta then advice would be great. Cheers for the input.

Brendan

[Oranoco]

You can't beat a good quality intercooler mate. I beleive the charge coolers are ok to about 14psi but after this they start to struggle.

[Manic]

i though chargecoolers can take much more psi than a intercooler and do the job more effectivly

[Oranoco]

Fraid not chap. Why do you think all the big power boys use intercoolers?

[hemingway]

I prefer intercooler too...

[oibren85]

Looks like i will be swapping my chargercoller over then! So next question is what the best intercooler to use? i want a stealthy one to hide behind the bumper that doesn't show to much.

cheers again guys
Brendan

[Oranoco]

It's a bit of a hot topic as opinion varies greatly. Can't go far wrong with a GRS, ProAlloy or Radtec. The half width Pace isn't up to much though. Shame they don't have a full front kit like they do for the Escort as that is excellent

[oibren85]

yeah i heard GRS ones good. also heard waiting list is like 3months, better get my order in fast!!

[niracka]

just cut a nice big hole in ur bumper m8 front mounted coolers look great stickin out the bumper plus better cooling cos air goes streight to it.

[sailorbob]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I prefer chargecooling. Water to air is always more efficient at transferring the heat than air to air.

[Oranoco]

It's excellent for stuff like 1/4 mile sprints but on th eopwen road the intercooler is the king. Charge coolers seem unable to keep charge temps down over about 14psi.

In the right application however a charge cooler is excellent.

[FezzR]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I prefer chargecooling. Water to air is always more efficient at transferring the heat than air to air.

charge coolers are very good, too a point
for big power the capacity of cooling needed to make charge cooler efficient makes them big and impractical in my view

there is no dout it can be done and it can be made to work really well, but is it worth it?

[sailorbob]

I think they can be made to work without much effort, Celica ST205, Lotus Esprit are factory fitted with charge coolers. Certainly the Celica setup has no problems with winding the boost up past 14 psi. I'm plumping for a chargecooler on my project.

[FezzR]

no dout with the right r&d it will work, recon you could use mapping to help control your temps also

what is your "project"

[Oranoco]

Focus RS also uses a charge cooler system but have you seen the size of its cooler rad?

[sailorbob]

what is your "project"

Mk1 MR2, bigger cams, ported head, Formula Atlantic valves, Arias pistons, Pauter rods, ARP studs/bolts, lightened/balanced/shotpeened/nitrided standard crank, Sprintex supercharger, chargecooler, 4:2:1 custom s/s exhaust manifold, s/s custom twin exit exhaust, DIY chipped eec-iv (of course) Escort Cosworth management, Fidanza flywheel, Exedy paddle clutch, Celica 6 speed box, Leda Suspension, space framed rear end. Might end up with Racelogic traction control too, depends on how nasty in the wet it is Naturally this is all taking much longer than planned.

[FezzR]

Mk1 MR2...

and i lost interest

Mk1 MR2, bigger cams, ported head, Formula Atlantic valves, Arias pistons, Pauter rods, ARP studs/bolts, lightened/balanced/shotpeened/nitrided standard crank, Sprintex supercharger, chargecooler, 4:2:1 custom s/s exhaust manifold, s/s custom twin exit exhaust, DIY chipped eec-iv (of course) Escort Cosworth management, Fidanza flywheel, Exedy paddle clutch, Celica 6 speed box, Leda Suspension, space framed rear end. Might end up with Racelogic traction control too, depends on how nasty in the wet it is Naturally this is all taking much longer than planned.

super charger instead of turbo will be making a difference in temps. there for choice of cooler

[sailorbob]

and i lost interest

Cheeky, obviously never had the joys of owning one. That makes me feel superior

super charger instead of turbo will be making a difference in temps.

Surprisingly a supercharger doesn't have as much of an adiabiatic efficiency advantage (if at all) over a turbo as you would think. Something like a Roots type is approx 50% whilst a T25 '45' trim turbo would be 73% (if you kept it in the sweet spot of the compressor map), centrifugal superchargers tend to be slightly more efficient than turbochargers because you don’t have the exhaust charge heating up the inlet charge. Lysolm screw supercharger can achieve efficiencies of 85%. I'd still be using a chargecooler if it were a turbo.

[Dave_B]

ive got a chargecooler, and in summer it is probably a better option keeping temps down by 30% on average over a intercooler, but i keep thinking of opting to a big grs front cooler,

think its all about peoples opinions on them and personal prefernce, not necessarily a right or wrong answer IMO

dave

[krsi]

I run a charge cooler setup on my 200SX. Really depends on the design, the size of the pre-rad and a the flow of the pump. Here's a good read for chargecoolers:

http://www.driftworks.co.uk/forum/showp ... stcount=54

http://www.driftworks.co.uk/forum/showp ... stcount=64

HTH

[krsi]

And another:

http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/

[CarismaDave]

Pro-Alloy coolers are a good bet as they're single-pass so more efficient (I believe) than a GRS. See here:



You will need to expose all of it though...you cannot 'hide' it otherwise it wont do it's job!

Personally I'm not into chargecoolers. IMO a very good I/C is better and at the end of the day your ACT does not have to be ice cool!

Dave

[samantha]

Most people in the USA choose charge coolers & show better results, it usually follows on to the UK at a much to late date. Ie, when everyones bought big intercoolers
IMO, intercoolers are WELL over rated (like bmw's!) They just look real good!

[FezzR]

i think krsi's first link points out the key down falls in chargecooling in the UK

this subject remind me a lot of topmount vs front mount arguements on scooby websites. and then andy forest running a topmount on his prize winning beast


at the end of the day, its like any thing to do with engine setups.
you have to know what you want
you have to understand how your going to try to achieve it
you have to know how to combine all the aspects of the engine setup effectively

[subarustel]

...

[krsi]

ive had both set ups charge and inter.

my front mount on my old rs was runnin 1.7 1.8 bar boost.

my chargecooler was runnin 1.5 bar of boost.

both excellent, chargecooler works off a pump which is jus another thing waitin 2 go wrong, though in traffic it keeps temps cooler (tried and tested)

my chargecooler could have handled 1.7 1.8 bar jus never run it that hard

both excellent but charge cooler cost more

I know Im coming back to quite an old thread but did you have an ACT running both setups? What were they averaging?

Cheers,

Krsi

[NeilH]

Evening people,

Do you notice any temperature rises in the coolant system when you place an intercooler infront of the radiator?

My fan is on almost constantly, once the car is up to temperature. Sticking something in the way of the radiator would hinder the airflow quite a bit, yes.

Because space is a little at a premium at the front of my Westfield, wondering if anyone knew much about the Aquamist system and I could forget about an intercooler altogether.

*** I'm currently running the engine without an intercooler but, this will have a huge knock-on effect, come the warmer weather. Though, it's probably having an effect already.



Thanks,

Neil

[subarustel]

yes, aving the front mount in front of the rad does cause temps to rise, but if u have a good engine and coolin system the temps should sit around halway. my car used to run below halfway, then with the front mount it ran dead on the half mark.

i have seen probs of the car runnin 3/4 high but this prob is easily fixed by using a couple of longer water hoses, as u have a bigger water system. some people cut the hoses down when they split a pipe near the jubilee clip, but this only causes temps to rise slightly.


alternatively use an alloy rad which is bigger than standard anyways.

hope this helps

[NeilH]

Unfortunately, fitting a bigger rad is not really an option. The current one is pretty much taking up most of my nose-cone. It could be made deeper I suppose.

what's the normal running temp of the cooling system? I've got a 75 degree temp sender for the fan and I'm running around 85 degrees temp in the cooling system.

thanks for your input.

Neil

[FezzR]

normal running temp is around 90 degress,
if you had to put rads in front of each other then its best to put a large scoop to pick up air and force it into the rad. from under body in your case if its high enough