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M4X WW - ZT Project - For Sale / Breaking (soon!) : Member's Gallery - Page 4 | Fiesta Forums

M4X WW - ZT Project - For Sale / Breaking (soon!)

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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby knuckles on Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:24 pm

the extra mount on the zetec engines was added by ford after the release of the xr2i 16v.
all the later mk3.5 shells had the modified inner wings as shown by robs picture.
I think it must of been for a reason or maybe as they added A/C , power steering pump, etc it made it heavier. Its probally just a precaution case the rear mount ever failed.
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby jonyb4 on Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:22 am

does seem alot to ask of the rear, i know theres gearbox mounts too but its heavy, and all on one mount :oooh:
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby ~nomad~ on Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:30 pm

jonyb4 :does seem alot to ask of the rear, i know theres gearbox mounts too but its heavy, and all on one mount :oooh:


one mount is fine imho, as long as it and the gearbox mounts are up to it. Bear in mind it works fine on the rs turbos, I would be more concerned about the force going through the mounts when flooring a frst or erst then the actual weight of the engine. Having the front mount is in no way a bad thing, but not essential imho.
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby hb69 on Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:53 pm

~nomad~ :
jonyb4 :does seem alot to ask of the rear, i know theres gearbox mounts too but its heavy, and all on one mount :oooh:


one mount is fine imho, as long as it and the gearbox mounts are up to it. Bear in mind it works fine on the rs turbos, I would be more concerned about the force going through the mounts when flooring a frst or erst then the actual weight of the engine. Having the front mount is in no way a bad thing, but not essential imho.


Thats what i would say too. Gearbox mounts do all the work, as long as they are good it will be fine
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby RS rob on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:12 pm

that probably makes sense its only on powersteering models, as the large cast bracket holding the pump, tensioners etc must weigh a ton!
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Max M4X WW on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:18 pm

Don't say that!
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby jonyb4 on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:48 pm

oh yea that pas backet is heavy, was bit of work holding it up while bolting it on the other day, my left arms somewhat bigger now lol
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby ~nomad~ on Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:23 pm

I maintain that the weight doesn't mean a great deal if the mounts are in good nick.
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby hb69 on Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:34 pm

Surely your running vibratechnics gearbox mounts or something similar anyway arent you Max?
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Max M4X WW on Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:57 pm

Yep, They are not new but came with the gearbox off my mate - not done many miles :)
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby hb69 on Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:00 pm

Max M4X WW :Yep, They are not new but came with the gearbox off my mate - not done many miles :)


Shouldnt be a problem then
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Rhinopower on Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:54 pm

Leave it off, front mount is ugly anyway :)
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby ~nomad~ on Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:57 pm

lol, never thought about how it looks tbh
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Sphinx on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:12 pm

I'd say what others have said, that is that Ford put it there for a reason so it must do something.
I was also curious about it back in the day so i removed it completely from my Si to test it before I removed the engine; if I grabbed the engine and tried to rock it, there was a touch more movement without that mount. Only very very minimal but I'd want it there for completeness.
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby ~nomad~ on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:17 pm

Sphinx :I'd say what others have said, that is that Ford put it there for a reason so it must do something.
I was also curious about it back in the day so i removed it completely from my Si to test it before I removed the engine; if I grabbed the engine and tried to rock it, there was a touch more movement without that mount. Only very very minimal but I'd want it there for completeness.


gay
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby knuckles on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:33 pm

~nomad~ :
Sphinx :I'd say what others have said, that is that Ford put it there for a reason so it must do something.
I was also curious about it back in the day so i removed it completely from my Si to test it before I removed the engine; if I grabbed the engine and tried to rock it, there was a touch more movement without that mount. Only very very minimal but I'd want it there for completeness.


gay


:lol:
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby rs220bhp on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:49 pm

Looks like a good build this, will be keeping an eye on it, if you need a hand with anything im local and dont mind lending a hand.

PS the rear mount on its own should be fine, there a plenty of xr2s running a zetec on a modified cvh rear mount and are fine including mine, been on car for a year and not had a problem.
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Max M4X WW on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:10 pm

I'm bored of all this mount crap.

James/heeman never had it
Mike/Mikee_RS never had it
Paul/S1 doesn't have it I don't think

etc etc, bored :)

Anyway, I will be bunging the holes on the big heavy massive mount killing pas bracket with something as i wont be using the other mount at the moment! So the holes will look silly and make it look like I've done a half arsed engine install! :D
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby dangerousdave on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:19 pm

ha ha ha lol, i only have the cvh mount too, with the bottom 2 holes cut off and the back lip ground down to fit snug :)
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Sphinx on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:24 pm

Well I'm bored of you. Now f**k off.
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby ~nomad~ on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:38 pm

Sphinx :Well I'm bored of you. Now f**k off.


his thread, you f**k off pretty boy :lol:
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Max M4X WW on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:58 pm

It's fine but the car isnt anywhere near being finished so who knows what will happen :lol:
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby jonyb4 on Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:34 am

pimsle, you bunch are a hoot

im wondering if welding the mounting plate onto my mk4 will be strong enough to hold the engine?

only using a small gasless mig :oooh:
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Mikee_RS on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:56 pm

Max M4X WW :I'm bored of all this mount crap.

James/heeman never had it
Mike/Mikee_RS never had it
Paul/S1 doesn't have it I don't think




exactly! stop worrying the poor fella about it, it will be fine
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Dave_B on Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:00 pm

max, on the mount issue, put some washers on the gearbox cradle mounts to spread the load. with the torque this engine has produced and is capable of you dont want to pull those bolts through the cradle.
mines done it and your engine did it in mikes car as well.

looking good tho dude.

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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Smo on Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:44 pm

I've had a good look at the CVH mount and it looks to me like it allows a lot less forwards/backwards movement than the rear Zetec mount, which I think is why some people don't see a problem. I use Vibratechnics gearbox mounts and they really aren't enough. The Zetec rear mount was fine at first but it got noticeably weaker after a few hard launches.

Max, can you get a pic up of your rear mount as you said it was different to mine and Rob's :)
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby knuckles on Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:53 pm

Smo :I've had a good look at the CVH mount and it looks to me like it allows a lot less forwards/backwards movement than the rear Zetec mount, which I think is why some people don't see a problem. I use Vibratechnics gearbox mounts and they really aren't enough. The Zetec rear mount was fine at first but it got noticeably weaker after a few hard launches.


:bonkers:
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby dangerousdave on Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:28 pm

jonyb4 :pimsle, you bunch are a hoot

im wondering if welding the mounting plate onto my mk4 will be strong enough to hold the engine?

only using a small gasless mig :oooh:



cant see why not mate id assume the standard is only spot welded in a coulpe of places! :P
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby jonyb4 on Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:49 am

yea it is in fact :D

im suprised hwo much strength the spot welding provides, say 10-15 spot welds on the mouting plate and it can join hold the engine, i mean what do they use to make these welds?

i got an imiage in my head of them using some kinda clamp or something that has a built in welder on the tip and heats through the metal to fuse them both together?

clever stuff :Q

well ill have to be litrally welding the whole thing edge to edge lol, just buying the last of the parts now, will startt fitting by end of the week, thursday i hope :D

got the loom, another piece of the Pas piping and the gaskets etc coming around wednesday
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Excursion on Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:48 am

Max,
Why run one mount when you have an easy option of two? Fit a Mk3.5 front mount and use a Mk3.5 engine block bracket to circular mount bracket (alloy instead of the Mk3 cast iron).

The 1 engine mount/2 gearbox mounts is an awful system anyway, but at least with two engine mounts you can retain decent levels of NVH withoout sacrificing engine movement too much.
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby jonyb4 on Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:28 pm

you lose power when the engine flexes :bonkers:
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Max M4X WW on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:01 pm

Excursion :Max,
Why run one mount when you have an easy option of two? Fit a Mk3.5 front mount and use a Mk3.5 engine block bracket to circular mount bracket (alloy instead of the Mk3 cast iron).

The 1 engine mount/2 gearbox mounts is an awful system anyway, but at least with two engine mounts you can retain decent levels of NVH withoout sacrificing engine movement too much.

How do I attach this to the car?
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Excursion on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:08 pm

Max M4X WW :
Excursion :Max,
Why run one mount when you have an easy option of two? Fit a Mk3.5 front mount and use a Mk3.5 engine block bracket to circular mount bracket (alloy instead of the Mk3 cast iron).

The 1 engine mount/2 gearbox mounts is an awful system anyway, but at least with two engine mounts you can retain decent levels of NVH withoout sacrificing engine movement too much.

How do I attach this to the car?


Several options:
1) Drill right the way through the chassis legs and use long bolts (I've done this before on a Mk3).
2) Drill through the outer skin and use Rivnuts
3) Cut and weld insome captive nuts.
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Excursion on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:09 pm

jonyb4 :you lose power when the engine flexes :bonkers:



Not power, just acceleration response :)
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Re: M4X WW - My Zetec Turbo Project

Postby Max M4X WW on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:55 pm

Excursion :Several options:
1) Drill right the way through the chassis legs and use long bolts (I've done this before on a Mk3).
2) Drill through the outer skin and use Rivnuts
3) Cut and weld insome captive nuts.

Hmm,

Will nuts and bolts crush the leg?
Will rivnuts be strong enough?
Dont think I can be doing with any welding :oooh:
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