fiestaturbo.com

[heeman10]

Break-through!

I just rang AP Racing to check they got my clutch, and it's in the workshops now for testing. They looked it over before undertaking any tests/measurements, and it didn't appear to have over-released, and they thought the wear all looked fine too. The trouble with the guy I've been speaking to is that he's so busy, conversations are hurried along and brief. This time I grabbed him for over five minutes, and learned something vital, and something I suspect a handful of members on this forum are aware of buy hadn't thought so suggest!

AP's website has a page dedicated to the modifications necessary for converting the auto-adjust Escort RS Turbo pedal to a manual adjust item. Since the Escort pedal is different to that of the Fiesta, and we all know that a manual adjust Fiesta pedal is required, I only ever skim read the page and assumed it to be mostly irrelevant when it comes to the Fiesta. However, after my chat just now with AP, I discovered that the later, manual adjust quadrant used in the post-1995 Escorts were of 55mm radius as opposed to the 40mm radius items from the earlier car. Due to a build-up of sloppy tolerances, some Escorts had issues with selecting first and reverse gears, so this larger quadrant was implemented to give greater travel at the gearbox end.

I, thinking that the manual adjustment was the only necessary part when it came to the Fiesta, fitted the auto-adjust quadrant back to the clutch pedal and installed it all again. So even though I have no free play in my clutch pedal at all (i.e. a long long range of effective movement), it seems extremely likely that the smaller Fiesta quadrant doesn't give QUITE enough lift at the clutch plate.

So, I mentioned to AP that a Fiesta page should be written, as we all know that the Escort part numbers (or at least the pedal number) can't be applied to the Fiesta. He believed it wasn't usually an issue for the Fiesta, only in the Escort, so it seems there are some misconceptions flying around and no-one knows quite what to do, including me it seems! I've had an Escort quadrant in my room for well over a year, and would've fitted it when I converted to the manual pedal had I not been at uni, away from home, but it seems that could be crucial here.

So, there could be a happy ending to this mystery after all!!! I'd rather not think of the time, money, blood, sweat and tears I've wasted when all I had to do was fit a £9 part I've had for over a year, so I'll just try to be please that I might finally have got to the bottom of it all. AP will also fit new friction pads to my clutch "for my troubles", and return it hopefully before the end of the year.

[jayrs]

get ya ass out there in the cold and fit it

[heeman10]

Not much hurry, I have no clutch Got engine oil/filter and gearbox oil to do plus fit turbo, do coolant, fit gearbox, lower arm/suspension etc etc back, can't be @rsed in this weather

[jayrs]

that dont matter, getting cold and not being able to feel your fingers while doing a job like this is just so much fun

mind you doing cluch rachets on a fez is always fun

not

[mike_wall15]

If I was you, I'd fit everything back together when it all comes back, and check the gear change is still poo.
THEN, change the quadrant over and see if it makes a difference. That way, if that is the problem, you can be 100% sure it is that

[Rhinopower]

ah good news, might want to update ure title to todays date as i missed this first time round!

Atleast you dont have to take the dash off to do it

[heeman10]

jay - Too right, hardly something either of us are new to!

Mike - That's tempting, but it'd also be a bit of a waste of time and effort. It'll be handy doing it now while the car's right up in the air so I can whip the clutch cable out in two minutes instead of 5 + cuts and scrapes, so I'll probably go for that. Then I can have the joy of taking the linkage apart to for the Rally Design Quickshift kit!

Ryan - Will do Clutch pedal quadrant will be about a one hour job, I'll time it just for you!

[jayrs]

no you can say that again.
i hate them.
i remember mine went on fasirly easy on my rs, but the one i fitted on my mates cars a few months back was a right c**t! in the end my mate had to drop the fuse box and beat the shaft in best he could with hammer so i could get the clip on.
but have to say, a garage fitted his first coupl years back, about £100 it cost him

[heeman10]

No way! Mine took me about two hours, but only because I couldn't see that the clutch cable nose needed withdrawing fully! As soon as I removed it the whole lot just fell apart, slapped the new one in and the job was done! lol I bought a little heater in winter 2004 that sits in the car with me when I'm working..makes it far more bearable. It's down to -3/-5 outside in the nights again now, it's very necessary!

[jayrs]

for real mate, i got the car now as my run around and sure enough, true to his word, the receipt for the racthet to be fitted is there.
suprised my mate dont walk funny after being dicked like that

the one i fitted as i say mate, was a right focker, i would say the hardest ive done so far.
-5 eh, fock that, i dunno what it is over here but i wouldnt like to be working on a car for very long in that temp

[knuckles]

can't be @rsed in this weather

That aint no excuse .... im fitting my engine tomorrow and it was minus 3 last night down here.

[heeman10]

No need to tell me about working in the cold, the main chunk of this conversion was completed from 30th Dec 2004 to Jan 6th 2005 working alone (bar about two hours) from 8am till 1am for 5 days alone in temps down to -6

[MAD_Adamski]

HURAHHHHHHHH

lets hope this solves it

[ianFRST]

what a c**t.

id be so pissed if it turns out to be that

[mike_wall15]

No need to tell me about working in the cold, the main chunk of this conversion was completed from 30th Dec 2004 to Jan 6th 2005 working alone (bar about two hours) from 8am till 1am for 5 days alone in temps down to -6

[~Tony~]

hope that sorts it out mate.

if it does thats going to be fitted to mine while its all in bits

saves me going through what you have

[MarkRS2K]

hope that sorts it mate, then you can really test the car

[heeman10]

Ian - I'm trying so hard not to think of that, but...yeah, could've been most of the respray had I found this out half a year ago.

Mike -

Tony - Precisely, it does help whenever I know I've saved someone else some hassle by going through some myself. I'll measure the clutch cable travel from top to bottom (i.e. pedal up/pedal down cable retraction) with the Fiesta quadrant, then compare it to the retraction I get with the Escort quadrant. That should tell a story once I run it through the lever ratios of the clutch lever arm/release bearing lever length, so I'll see what difference in clutch lift actuation I get. Hopefully something like an extra 1-2mm at the release bearing.

Mark - Too damn right! Quick shifting and 1 bar boost instead of sluggish crap and 10psi! I'm fed up of "looking forward" to it now, I just wanna drive it!

[Brammer]

Should have sorted it mate

[heeman10]

The mystery continues

I just removed the pedal and quadrant, came to swap it for my larger Escort item and stick it all back in....only to find that the larger, 55mm radius Escort quadrant is exactly the same as the quadrant that's already in the car, bar the colour difference! Just tried to get hold of AP Racing without much joy. We assumed that since I hadn't fitted the larger quadrant, that would solve the issue, so I suspect the clutch is being returned, albeit with new friction pads, but potentially without having been thoroughly tested for faults.

Just for the record, from lying down on the car floor with my tools to having the pedal and quadrant off and in my hands took nine minutes, for all those people making excuses about it taking too long and putting it off! That includes undoing the clutch pedal bracket, withdrawing the clutch cable from the engine bay side of the bulkhead, then removing the pedal assembly. So all you lazy people...get doing it!

[jimmyesh]

Fit a hydraulic clutch and have done with it ferchrissakes!:lol:

[heeman10]

Probably should've gone that route a while ago! The lonnnng pedal travel doesn't aid fast gear changes either I must say. Might consider it...what's the usual route? Ka components straight through, with a bracket bolted through the two clutch cable nose eyes on the gearbox and to the front face of the gearbox? I had a look at turboboss's bracketry at SCC and noticed that it wasn't stiff in the necessary planes. He said they'd had problems with it flexing too, but I can't say I noted exactly where it was bolted.

[jimmyesh]

I used a normal mk3 fiesta pedal box but had a focus one laying around on my bench so took all the measurements and just fitted the focus clutch pedal and master cylinder to the fiesta pedal box so I could keep the fiesta brake and throttle cables and knew it would all bolt straight in.
(theres some pics in my photobucket album...)

I had to modify the bulkhead to accept the inlets/outlets to the master cylinder then just used the focus pipework and hooked it all up.

I took a lot of trial-and-error working to get the pedal at the right height and the biting point right but it's all there now.

I had it easy in some ways though as i had a focus gearbox in already including slave cylinder so it was just a case of connecting it all up...

I know there's many ways to "skin a cat" and all that though. Havent heard of using the KA parts before sounds interesting.

Top work too mate, thats one hell of a project you've got there well done

[heeman10]

Sounds handy...definitely something more approachable when the engine's out or the car's all in bits anyway before completion. I'm always unwilling to undertake things like that because I drive mine so damn much! I've suffered from deciding to do longer jobs and forcing myself to miss out on enjoying the car instead of modifying it further...something a lot of people do. It turns into a project that's never appreciated then, I'm sure you know what I mean

Slap some of these pics up if you come across them, I'd be interested in seeing anyway. It's tempting to bolt the gearbox etc back in with the different oil and new release bearing to see if anything's changed, I must admit. The clutch pedal has been adjusted juuuuust to the point where there's no slack in the cable. I don't really want to adjust it so the cable's constantly under tension as it'd shorten its life. Perhaps I could try just a little bit of tension, possibly gaining a critical millimetre...

Thanks for that, it's been more than worth it and I plan on getting more fun out of it yet!

[freak power]

I've got pics of mine but i modified the std pedal box with Wilwood parts

[ianFRST]

bummer. now what?

[heeman10]

I've got pics of mine but i modified the std pedal box with Wilwood parts

I'd love to go that way, but I don't see my car as being serious enough a beast for such things tbh...I vaguely remember yours actually, I'll have a glance through your thread again some time

Ian - Flywheel removal and check. If that's fine, and if AP did get to inspect every aspect of my clutch in the end, I'll have to bolt the gearbox back in and see how it is now. Nothing else to check.

Shot of the quadrants (Fiesta = black, Escort = white)

[MAD_Adamski]

you have not cut the quadrent tho!!!???

[heeman10]

Cutting the quadrant, as described on the AP website, would serve to do nothing more than slacken off the cable, meaning I'd need to wind the adjustment bolt in to compensate, and bring the quadrant back to the same angular position it was in before chopping the lower ten teeth odd. That mod relates to the Escort, but doesn't need applying to the Fiesta

[MarkRS2K]

so whats next then matey.....fit the quickshift and see how that goes???

[heeman10]

Nope, I'm going to have to fit everything back to the car and see what happens now. Just spoke to AP again, and the clutch DID get a thorough checking over before posting, thankfully. It was sent out yesterday, so I MIGHT get it back today, and it did get all new friction pads fitted, and postage is free back to me, so I'm very happy with the service and concern they've shown indeed The tests concluded that it hasn't been fully lifting, which means I need to achieve more clutch cable travel.

I can't REALLY attain any more at the pedal end, though I'll try cranking on a small amount of tension into the clutch cable via the adjustor on the pedal. I usually have about 1-2mm of slack pedal motion, so I'll take that up, and apply mild tension and see what happens. If that doesn't work, I may need to see if Ford sell any shorter gearbox lever arms so I can get more movement at the release bearing. If they don't, I'll need to get mine shortened somehow, and that "should" do the trick. At least speaking to AP has clarified that the flywheel isn't the cause of the problem, so I now know I can bolt the clutch and gearbox in knowing everything on the inside is fine

[mike_wall15]

Buy another clutch cable. The new one will probably be shorter! Make sure it's from Ford, I had an RAC one once that was too long. You need a Zetec one

[heeman10]

Clutch cable is a new Ford item, but wouldn't change the problem anyway

Clutch is now back in my hands, with shiny new friction pads. Huge thanks to AP Racing, top bunch!

[jimmyesh]

Well done mate, Sounds like you're getting somewhere with it now, having isolated the problem. Have fun reassembling everything! Can't wait to see this all done

[mike_wall15]

Clutch cable is a new Ford item, but wouldn't change the problem anyway

I remember saying it to you a while ago, oh well!
I've seen 3 different lengths in my fiesta years, hence my initial concern I'd imagine. All 3 had different pedal travel.

Cool you got the clutch back. Start getting the beast back on the road!! When you aiming to have it road worthy?