fiestaturbo.com

[lucasdemoley]

Right. I have two 15" alpine subs in my boot, I hit 137.1 db with these at an event a couple of months ago, with one sub in a broken box. My gf's system (two 12" vibe subs in ported box) has hit over 135db at sextons on one of those readers. Now, there was this event in Pembrokshire called motor-stock (http://www.motor-stock.co.uk/) and one of the attractions was a 'sound-off', with 'Prize awarded for the highest decibel reading'. So, I got my car back from the garage the night before and spend all night/ all morning getting my car ready and wiring my gf's sound system into my car aswell, on the back seats facing towards the front of the car.

Anyway, I had warned the guy that the device he was planning to use was the wrong bit of kit, (it was a health and saftey meter) for the job, netherless he didnt bother to get it sorted and used that. When it came to read my car, i turned it all up and it was the loudest my car has ever been, but all it registered on the device was 106db. Another car with 3 sony 15" subs, who i recon was jsut as loud as me, and we were both easily the loudest cars at the event, scored 100.1db. There were then some crap cars that were read, one being a car that had a single splx amp and 4 6*9's and he scored 109db, as did a tug truck that had two 8inch (like 100rms) subs in each front seat.

Basicly, me and this other guy wernt even in the top ten, which was jsut silly. I dont care about winning, but when something dodgy is going on you are going to complain. Anyway, I later found out that they had the meter on setting A, which is basicly the relative db to how the ear hears it, not actual db. What happens on this setting is that lower frequecies have a large amound of db taken off their real reading, so it is realative to how the ear hears it (110db at 10khz will sound louder than 130db at 30hz ) and adjusts for that which is totaly wrong. The pic belopw shows roughly how much is knocked off,



The tone they used was a low sweep, Im not sure where this starts, but say at 150hz. Smaller speakers play higher frequencies better than bigger speakers, so it wasnt a level playing field.

Now heres my issue, they are totaly deneying that they got it totaly wrong, and are bad mouthing me saying that im gutted becase i didnt win the prize and thats why im complaining (the prize is a small amount of vouchers for a crap shop 2 hours from where i live, oh yeh, thats why im pd off). They are also now saying it wasnt advertised as an spl event, and having a go at me for calling it so. Even if it was just max db of someones system, surley they then should have used a high to low sweep and even with this the device was on the wrong setting.

Now, do you guys agree with me, or have i got it totaly wrong and am making a fuss over nothing?

If someone could make a good praghraph about how I am not toaly wrong, that would be good!

[ukmicky]

100 DB isn't very much is it.

However you don't require sub bass to achieve a High DB figure its not all about BASS, tweeters mids on their own can achieve a very high figure . Also I ha vent been to a sound off in years but my friends used to use different setting on their actives when going to sound off's compared to normal listening and unless you know what your doing and understand everything it can actually feel like you've been cheated as your ears hear things differently to the meters.

Also different competition can use different test samples , what they played through your system may not have suited your system and the frequencies it works best at .

You also said that you put your GF's system in your car as well ,did you check to see if your car battery and alternator could handle the extra drain because i very much doubt a standard car setup could. I've got 2 quality alpine v12 amps in my car and a single 15in Rockford fosgate dual coil sub + alpine door speakers etc and my battery and alternator cant handle my system up loud for long ,without a noticeable drop in quality of sound The professionals use optima batteries, uprated alternators and high power capacitors to power their systems to achieve the figures your wanting.

[lucasdemoley]

Cheers for the reply. The tone used was the same tone used at the two other spl events i have been to. I even had to lend them my tone cd which i use to set up my system because they only had one cd and it got scratched. I get that its not all about bass, but when your system is set up for mucho bass, and that the cd used is a low sweep bass test, as was used at the event. I also get what you mean about your ears hearing differntly, I studied about sound for 2 years at uni, but as my system has read properly twice before, I have a rough idea of how it would sound if its quieter/ louder, and it was definetly alot louder!

Sorry if it seems i am on the defence with my reply, its just I've been typing in that manner now for three days and cant seem to get out of it, lol! Thank you for your valid comments, I think though that most of the issues you have raids which i can see having been part of the problem as i ddint mention them abouve, i am covering in this reply!

Stereos drain tug-loads! I like the sound of your gear your running, proper stuff so i know you know a thing or too atleast! As to the power issues. I have no problems with that. I have a maxima excide blue top car audio battery in my boot on a split charge relay system. Also, I havent had my subs in the car for about 2 weeks prior to the event, so my batteries were fully charged (I had an AA man at the event check as i fogote my multimetre!)

You are right though, 100db aint looud at all for a car (clio) that totaly flexes its roof and has three 15" sony subs inside!

Btw, I kept posting, jsut simply re-itterating that they had gotten it wrong and I got threats of violence from the organisers, which was nice! I continued as they kept saying horrible things about me (they then went back and changed all the horrible things, and posted that i was making them up!), in the end they got the last word in and locked the thread. Another thread then started which was basicly atacking me. I didnt even post anything bad, and simply made a similar and far less hurtful reference than they did about the peopple who organised the event (which they say wasnt them, so they shouldnt have been effected by my reference) and i got kicked off the site. One of my friends did too, and all he did was post an emoticon in a thread where people were posting emoticons (this is also the one where i last posted).

Anyway, quite a few people are starting to agree with me now, I just have a lot of frustration, thats why im posting so much crap as above!

I'd still apriciate a reply from someone who attends alot of these things saying im right though!

[RS rob]

i took my fiesta to a sound off in swansea
was either uplands or sextons

anyways my 12" pioneer (400wrms, 800w max)
proper designed ported box
460wrms kenwood amp
1 farad power cap

141.2 db

i came first and beat the guy in the 15" section with solarbaric's lol

[RS rob]

also to help you a bit, i'd reccomend you going to sextons or uplands for db reading!

[lucasdemoley]

Wow, thats a great reading! With my gf's system we did go to sextons and hit over 135db with it. Just, if you attend an event only for the spl part of it, and its taken you all nioght to put the stuff in your car because you only just got it back from the garage, and then you spend 2 hours driving to it, your gona get pd off, like me!

[bassboy]

there is nothing you can do unfortunately but stay away and only go to 'soundoffs' that are using either an Audiocontrol or a termlab mic...both are industry standard mics

At CAS an audiocontrol unit is used

We play a sine sweep playing from about 200hz down to 10-20hz and SPL (sound pressure level) is checked in real time with the highest score being displayed

all windows and doors have to remain fully closed while the test is being conducted but the car is running to help the charging system

by reading what they wrote - the highest db reading of the day wins a prize...is a very strange wording and unfortunately puts you in the backseat...db is just a measure of loudness...they do not state frequencies or anything....unfortunately anything above 80hz or so, will not produce much PRESSURE...BUT it will play loud...so will measure loud on a mic that measures ONLY loudness and NOT PRESSURE...so something like a pair of coaxials will play loud at the right frequencies which is what was happening that day by the sounds of things.

what the AC and TL mics do, is measure the amount of pressure acting on the mic (which is what SPL is all about) and work out the loudness from that

just to give you an example of the figures my personal demo cars (nothing to do with CAS) are hitting on the PROPER mics:

Focus RS - 2x 15's - 151.1db
VW Polo - 2 x Pioneer 306C's, 400wrms - 140.9db
Toyota Corolla - 2 x JL Audio W3, 500wrms - 140db
Saxo - 1 Alpine Type R 15" - 141db

new vehicles of mine coming out soon are:

ERST S2 - 2 x RE MX 12's - hoping for 147db
my new basser - hoping for 160db!
VW polo 4 x 12's - 148db
Vauxhall Corsa 2 RE MX 15's sealed - 145db
Ford Fiesta Mk4 Fiesta 2 RE XXX 15's - 150db+
Ford Friesta XR2i 4 x RE MX 15's - 152db



bassboy

[lucasdemoley]

Wow, cheers for your reply dude!

I know there isnt anything i can do about it, its just i think its a real shame that they couldnt let people know who theught that they were going to an spl event that it wasnt, or atleast that the readings were totaly different from an event that happened localy a few moths ago which was done right. It also annoyed me because they did promise in person that it would be the same as the other event that happened. Basicly, i just got really pd off at them, and the fact that they were having digs against me and saying that my stereo was s**t and that im a big girl because a car with splx gear beat me.

The tone used was a sweep, the same as you use I think, 200hz to 10-20hz. I wouldnt have such an issue if they used one that went from 20khz to 20hz, as then i'd know that they were testing the whole sustem, but they basicly got alitle bit of both and messed it up!

I just get annoyed at them making it out that it was done properly and right, when it wansnt. I also felt sorry for a lot of people such as a guy whos sytems were quite tidy, but read 95db at this event, and his mates had gone to the other event and scored around 135db. He still thinks that both of these readings are on the same terms ect, which they arnt, and thats whats getting to me!

I really appriciate you reply btw, and it has made me understand a few more things and helped me out alot!

I am also very, very impressed with the spl you are getting from your demo cars, nutts!

cheers again!

[bassboy]

no problem mate glad i could be of assistance

we have one last sound off at CAS on the 24th if you want to come down but i dont think the Focus will be there playing as it wont have any equipment in it LOL...ill let my 'Team SPB' do the talking for me

bassboy

[lucasdemoley]

Its abit far for me to travel, but chears for letting me know, ya never know, i might make it!

OK, this is the reason i am getting so annoyed with that club,

I replied lmfao to a emoticon a friend posted, i then got banned.I just made a new username and password and logged into see everything. My initial review of their event has been deleted as it was the only negative one, but wasnt at all rude or anything. They also deleted all my subsequent posts on that topic. Then, i had a look at the last place i posted and guess what i read, I originaly posted lmfao, and one of the admit changed it to,

Lmfao! And the winner is.....obviously not me and it should be so im going to write a whole book on why i am a bigger w anker than you.


This has just really annoyed me. They are so fing childish. The admin who banned me then quoted me and said,

again point, why are you persistantly trying to cause issues.

Its just like, wtf. Arggg. I know im not gona win, but atleast i can let everyone know what they are really like!

[bassboy]

wouldnt worry about it mate in all honesty...im sure you have bigger things to worry about...like gettin to hayes on the 24th lol

bassboy

P.S...would you be interested in playing louder than your currently do just using 1 15?

[lucasdemoley]

Yeh ive given up on it now, just really pd me off at the time!

Are you talking orion? I'm totaly skint atm to buy new stuff, but hopefuly (fingers crossed) I'll have a new job soon and have some spare moola to chuck at my car!

Btw, any ideas what kinda reading 1/2 orions (the 2kwrms versions) would get? Hoping to have my fiesta as a second car and take the audio abit further

cheers bud

[bassboy]

nope didnt mean the orions, i meant using your existing setup

but i wouldnt go orions (glad to have them out my car to be honest!)...would rather spend money elsewhere which is exactly what im doing now!

for a 2k sub, there are MUCH better that will play just as loud but SOOOOO much clearer!

my 2 orions did 150's no problem, the golf at CAS did 149 and a customer corolla did 147...the CAS car and the corolla are both tuned high (40hz or so) while mine is tuned to 26hz and still plays louder LOL

bassboy

[Superal]

VW Polo - 2 x Pioneer 306C's, 400wrms - 140.9db

Not bad for £60 worth of subs

[bassboy]

VW Polo - 2 x Pioneer 306C's, 400wrms - 140.9db

Not bad for £60 worth of subs

i expect that to go up soon hopefully

bassboy

[heeman10]

There is a dedicated ICE forum on fiestaturbo.com matey, you'll find more people in there who are into all this noisy music stuff

[Superal]

VW Polo - 2 x Pioneer 306C's, 400wrms - 140.9db

Not bad for £60 worth of subs

i expect that to go up soon hopefully

bassboy

That just proves how good your box's are

Has anyone used a Jackhammer sub yet in the UK? Only ever seen it on Pimp My Ride

[bassboy]

not that i know of...but i have heard of a Hummer in the states thats running 2 of them...has 4 or 5 alternators, voltage is regulated at 19v!! at a recent show, they were just 'playing' at 154db but had plenty left but couldnt play louder as they were in a hall LOL

about time they were used properly and not just for show!!!

hopefully my new basser should have 2-3 300A alternators

bassboy

[lucasdemoley]

Holley waz, i'd love to see that motor of yours then when its complete! Do you know of any pics/vids of that hummer on the net?

What were you thinking of then bassboy, a ported/tunned box or something? My problem is space, and sever lack of it in the back of my little fez!

[lucasdemoley]

Oh yeh, ive also just realised that on the settings im using, I can actualy turn it up to a little over 30 before things start to smell/ distort, I always thought that 24 (alpine hu) was where they started to bottle out so never turned them up much louder. There is a another local spl thing next weekend i think, will give it a try then and see!

Btw, how much do spl mics cost? If i was after like a fairly cheap one just to give me some idea if a change i made made it louder/quieter?

[festafoff]

have you got any pics of your setup?

chris

[bassboy]

completely forgot about this thread lol

SPL mics can be had for cheap, but they dont read very high and they are not accurate...

an audiocontrol mic and RTA will cost upwards of 2k easy with no optional extras LOL

i may be able to get you a Termlab mic and software for the laptop so you can test as much as you want. it is the same mic that is used in DBDrag so you know you are getting accurate results! not 100% on price but expect to pay about £400 or so

be careful with the volume control...going louder can actually mean a decrease in bass...a friend of mine who just broke the street b record went quieter when adjusting the volume knob up by one! get it on a mic and check it out

BTW did you get the sound measured again?

bassboy

[lucasdemoley]

Hey

I can only use the internet through my phone atm, so cant post pics. However, I have a project thread on my local club forum, I'm pretty sure it can be viewed by non members too,

http://www.gtectuning.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... sc&start=0

If it doesnt work i'll try and sore some pics.


Bassboy, cheers buddy. At a club meet someone had a proper mic there and was doing readings, I came second with 139db, so sorting the box+ split charge got me an extra 1.9db! The guy whoo came first was a mate of mine whose system i basicly installed for him because it was all wrong before (three different types of sub running off a 4 channel and two channel amps, pluged into the audio for the screens (no controle over volume), with 6x9's connected to the hu totaly distorting at any sign of a bass tone!), he hit 139.4db.

I'm thinking of making another box, from thinner mdf (12mm or something to cut costs/weight) and just take up the boot/back seats with a simple square ported box for the two subs, just something i can make to see what they'll do!

Any ideas where i can get info on box dimensions ect?

[bassboy]

do not use 12mm MDF as it will be worse...lets just say what you do with 2 15's, my mate does with half your cone area and half your power using one of my boxes with a type R 15...18mm MDF...there is more to come from his system but the car isnt available for me to improve on it further yet...he has just bought a corsa so now im supplying him with some Atomic/RE gear which should bump those figures up to 145dB or so

your way forward is to ditch one sub and just run one ported..the most space you have in your boot is around 5cuft from memory which is plenty enough for one 15 ported!

Im an authorised dealer for Atomic as well now so if you want something that hits HARD and LOUD drop me a PM and i can sort you out with some prices but it will mean, new amp, custom box and a new sub...oh and LOADS of sound deadening! Im currently doing a project dubbed 'Project 145' where we are trying to get 145 if not more from one Atomic 15 ported in the boot of a Mk3 Polo!

beware of building ported boxes mate as they are not as easy as they sound to build...its taken me over 7years of purely box building to get where i am today! if you want to make the box out of the best materials, use Birch Ply as its 4times stronger than MDF but also heavier and more expensive! trust me...1 15 and you will be fine

bassboy

[lucasdemoley]

Cheers buddy.

I did use 24mm mdf or something siily to make my current box, weighs a bloody tone!

tbh I still want to use both my subs, and simply make a rectangle box that I can just chuck into the back of my car, wire up to my amp and do some good readings. The reason for wanting to keep both subs is because if im willing to sacrifice space in my car, why not go for both subs as it will give me a higher reading? Also it means if the box isnt perfect i can still get a decent reading as i will still be having two subs working.

As per the gear you sell, im totaly totaly skint atm with a baby on the way, lol, so wont be in the market for a while!

luke

[Big Walker]

Managed 138.8 with 2 12" Cerwin Vega's running 2 Alpine 500Rms amps (out of phase) and 4gauge wiring