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[volcomstone411]

OK so to fill you all in.

Last weekend i mounted an eaton e45 onto the car and had it running. Mounting it to my 1.7 below inlet manifold where aircon pump is/was. I had it running, but not for too long as it wasnt to be plumbed in. I also have the intercooler all mounted up and ready. Piping is on its way, along with 200sx injectors to help with the hike in power.

I plan to have it running, using dreamscience managment and a larger MAF to allow the ecu to manage the fuel and spark, knowing how much air flow is coming thorugh. Dreamscience told me this is the best way of doing this obviously after chaning the values by watching the fuel trims.

My questions are:

1) I was hoping not to change compression of the car at this point due to costs, but will do in the future, anyone see this being a problem?
2) Spark timing, i believe for boosted engines the timing has to be retarded, otherwise it could blow up. My question is, how will i be able to determine the spark timing.
3) Will i need larger fuel lines, and is there anyway of finding out if injectors are maxing out, before the engine runs badly lean?

[volcomstone411]

forgot to say, ive tried asking some tuning companies, but as they wont be getting the work, they seem reluctant to help.

[Wardy257]

Does the dreamscience allow you to recallobrate the MAF?

You will be far better off runing aftermarket management and a MAP.

What engine are you using?

[volcomstone411]

yes dreamscience lets me adjust everything my ecu already has on it, which is the standard item.

The problem is, i know dreamscience was 900 quid, but i had a job to find aftermarket ecus for decent money that handle vct.

its a puma 1.7 VCT Zetec-se

bottom end is strong enough, as a puma 1.7 has been done 285bhp with a turbo and standard bottom end. Diffect compression pistons though

[sailorbob]

I would have thought that your Dreamscience would have let you see the spark advance, after all this is available in the OBD-II protocol I'd ask whoever sold you the DS about it.

[Wardy257]

900 quid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Emerald will do VCT and is a lot cheaper than that. Plus you can bin the MAF. Sorted

[SiZT]

if its an Eaton M45 then you will be able to just stick it on the dream science with the uprated injectors and it should run like a dream... just take it to a RR place to get the fueling set-up properly, you should be o.k for 5PSI on stock internals with an IC

[sailorbob]

Plus you can bin the MAF.

A backward step IMHO.

[volcomstone411]

yes you can change the spark, im just wondering, is there any way to work out, by how much.

I looked at emerald, thats fine, but i would need to pay someone to wire it up. Dreamscience was plug and play obd2 managment, and i could keep all the alarm, pats, and everythin without changing it.

[volcomstone411]

yea im a fan of maf sensors, they tell the engine exactly what is coming in. Similar to a map sensor. If i used aftermarket ecu i would need to have map sensor and wiring installed, all at greater cost.

It means the engine isnt running on average values, but actual airflow.

[sailorbob]

yes you can change the spark, im just wondering, is there any way to work out, by how much.

Typically 1 to 1.5 degrees per psi of boost is quoted as the amount to retard spark by, the difficulty you have is not having a MAP sensor to determine the boost with. You need to get a means of figuring out boost and then relating this to your LOAD value to enable you to adjust your spark tables.

[volcomstone411]

was thinking this also, but, if i know exaclty what air was flowing before, i will then be able to see the ad counts through the maf. Hopefully this will tell me how much extra air is being flowed, and how much of that is boost?

Could i just not have a boost guage fitted, a decent one.

[sailorbob]

Maybe it would be better to stop thinking in terms of boost but in terms of LOAD instead. The ecu isn't concerned with pressure (except on a turbo engine where it is needed for wastegate control) but it is needing to know the airmass and since the fuel and spark tables use LOAD and rpm for their row and column inputs it makes sense to do this. Taking this approach you will need to log your maximum LOAD seen with and without the supercharger and then see how much you need to raise the LOAD range of your tables. You may also need to make adjustment to the anticipated aircharge parameters too as these can have a nasty habit of clipping the calculated aircharge value causing you to run lean if you exceed what they are expecting.

[volcomstone411]

cheers for that, great advise.

Yea anticipated aircharge, was on the list of things i had to change.

airmass will be easy to work out, as if i can get it to run startup with estimated figures, watch the fuel trims, then the maf will tell me how many ad counts of airflow their are, then i can just adjust the Mass transferre function to get the fueling correct without having to change the base fuel tables.

i woulda thaught there will be some backflow entry across the maf too that will need sorting, specially after closed throttle.

Maybe i should turn it over to a pro to get the spark timing sorted, speciaily with vct its got different timings for cam position.

want to do it myself, but not 100% yet.

[sailorbob]

Don't play with the MAF to get your fuelling right, this is a bad way of tuning. Use the fuel tables, it's what they are there for When you alter the MAF like this you will screw up the LOAD calculation which in turn will affect your spark timing (amongst other things), you will end up fudging many things to deal with your MAF being off.

Doesn't your DS allow you to log aircharge and LOAD? Using the MAF A-D counts would mean having to log rpm too and then convert it to get these values. This will be fine if you can export to Excel as you can use this to do the conversion.

Ideally you would have the throttle body before the supercharger, this vastly reduces backflow problems. I don't know about the Puma ecu's code, but there are usually backflow tables in the 4 cylinder ecu code.

Giving it over to a tuner to adjust the spark is certainly an option (they will have the knock sensors, det cans etc) but I suggest you get your tables altered to suit the new LOAD range the engine will run too (if required) beforehand so that they only need to alter the upper LOAD areas. The thing to bear in mind is that until you start to peg the range of the tables then you will find you need very little adjustment to both fuel and spark. This is the beauty of LOAD based tables.

[volcomstone411]

dreamscience suggested using a much larger maf unit, and then recalibrating it.

Ok i can adjust the fuel base table if needed, its just that when tuning up a standard car, ds recommend adjusting maf values rather than base fuel tables.

there is a backflow lookup table that can be adjusted.

Maybe a conjunction of a day on the rollers and pro knowledge coupled with my knowlegde of the engine and the look-up tables would be the best option.

and yes i can datalog load and aircharge, i can capture all the data, then play it back, might be useful.

The puma doesnt have a knock sensor, is that ganna be an issue?

[sailorbob]

Rather than try to go into great depth as to why this is a bad way of tuning here is an article by someone who has one far greater knowledge of how the eec works than me http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/files/ ... _works.doc Once you have read it you can decide for yourself if you agree with DS.

You may need a larger MAF is you peg your existing one, it all depends on how much 'headroom' yours has. A Mondeo 2.5l MAF will cope with over 200bhp if that helps.

Not having a knock sensor isn't a problem, you just tend to be a bit more conservative on your timing to allow for poor fuel etc.

[volcomstone411]

well the puma has the same maf as the 2l zetec mondeo one.

ok i think ill try base fuel tables then. I suppose different peaople do things different ways.